Plumeria
Questions:
- How do you identify yourself, religiously?
I would identify myself as a nondenominational Christian.
- What is your relationship status?
In a relationship, going on three years this August...well... I guess in a few days now.
- What, if any, questions do you have before we commence the interview?
I don’t think I have any.
- What is your general reaction to what you listened to?
Generally, I am deeply upset to hear women talk in favor of being possessions, and that it is God's word that they do so, and come to terms with it. It pains me to hear women living their lives so passionately based on something that is false.
- Do you believe women are unable to understand men, and therefore unable to judge their actions?
No, I believe that men are not much different than women, and that from a psychological and cultural perspective we are wired the same, and most of our differences are due to cultural and societal norms (men being raised to be masculine, emotionless providers, etc). Women are able to understand men and judge their actions just as they would be able to understand and judge another woman. The ability to judge someone else's actions and understand the reasons they acted in that way is not hindered by gender (or sex depending on what you believe I suppose) but by your own ability to "put yourself in someone else's shoes", feel empathy, and sympathy.
- React to the statement, “women are a possession”.
It was infuriating. Women are human beings. It made me feel slightly hopeless, as well, because people who believe otherwise this strongly are not going to be reasoned with, especially by a fellow woman.
- How do sex slaves, like Bilhah and Zilpah, prevent “the lust of the world”?
[Here we had a brief discussion where I explained who Bilhah and Zilpah were and their eventual role in Jacob’s family, as well as the outcomes of their children, found in my polygamy post] Let the men get it out with women that are not honorable so they can come to the table of marriage holy? So, basically, the answer to how does it keep lust out of the world is: it doesn't. Sleeping with a woman outside your marriage for whatever reason will tend to lead to more chaos down the line as shown by all of that.Either by distrust in the marriage as it is in the present day ,or by illegitimate children causing a racket later on as is the Biblical example. This is why it's good and encouraged to have romantic love in a marriage now, because then you don't take your lusting elsewhere.
- How do you define “love”?
Love takes many forms, in my opinion, and each is varying in strength. However, I believe that a strong marriage takes all of them. There is the kind of love you feel for a friend or loved one; that bond that you would stand by them through anything but also thump them upside the head if they were going down a bad path without fear that your bond would be broken because of it. This is the kind of love that makes you forgiving, and open. This is the kind of love that makes you be able to sit in the same room as someone over and over again for years and still enjoy conversing with them about the same things, etc. Then there is "romantic" love, which is the love that you feel for an intimate partner. This generally related to things of a "sexual" nature in that when you feel this type of love you desire the other person. You want to be with them intimately in some capacity when you feel like being intimate with someone. You yearn to be near them, they make your heart soar, and they are the object of your illicit fantasies. I think the difference between lusting after someone and romantic love would be that when you feel lust it is fleeting. Romantic love is a candle that just keeps burning. It dims when your general desire dims but when your desire peeks you still find yourself wanting that same person. When you have both you have the love that keeps you tied to one person. I think you need both for a strong marriage. You need to desire your partner as a companion as well as a sexual being
- Does love create crippling, unmanly weakness in men?
No, BECAUSE love is a human emotion that you should feel as a mentally sound and functioning human. The stigma that a man who feels love openly, makes him unable to be a man or makes him weak ties in to social norms and stigmas. It is actually more crippling to expect a man to be emotionless. Statistically, this leads to mass shootings, suicide, depression, the raping of women and other men, etc.
- React “the American woman is the enemy of a man”.
A woman who has autonomy and understands she is a person, equal to man is not the enemy of man. If anything she is his ally, because a woman who fights for equality is a woman who understands and is able to to take on 50% of the burden that is living. An "American" woman as they have described would be, to me, a woman who supports men learning to be openly emotional beings instead of emotionally stunted. The fight of the American woman is not to place men below us but to balance one another out on an equal field, giving women more, and requiring men to do less.
- From this podcast, what is a “Biblical” marriage?
A "Biblical" marriage is one where the woman has little say in the matter; it is mostly a man's choice (and also the choice of the woman's family), in marriage she becomes a possession. This is a state she should be proud of because it is honorable to belong to someone unlike those harlots, who don't. It is good to be a possession through marriage because you are secure, even if you aren't your husbands favorite, you should be thankful.
- From this podcast, what makes a man? What makes a woman?
From the podcast: a man is made through worshiping the lord, being a leader, maintaining order, and working hard so you can maintain your position as a man and stay out of the house. Similarly a woman is a vessel to create a family for the man. Prior to marriage, her focus should be the Lord. After marriage her focus should be pleasing her husband who is now her possessor, and worshiping in the Lord that he has granted her security, and honor in their union.
- What makes a good marriage?
A good marriage is two individuals both deciding that they are romantically in love, good companions, and that they would like to spend the rest of their life with that other person. To have a good marriage you need to have people who go together well. This looks different couple to couple. If you are a woman who wants to work you need to marry a man who supports that, and vice versa. If you like to argue you need to find someone who shares that love OR is not easily hurt by arguments. Again it look different couple to couple. In the end the most important thing is a good marriage is one between two people who better each other, but love their partner for the individual they are; they are partners, not master and servant.
- How does this make you feel about this religious sect?
Well it makes me feel like they are a strange cult. I worry for the safety of these women, and I feel disdain for the boxes they are putting themselves inside.
- With your background in Psychology, what, do you think, is responsible for this type of thinking?
I think it stems from the deep desire to please the power you believe in. Also, in the cases of these women, they present that they had "dealt with emotions before" leading me to believe that they had been "spurred" and were grasping at a way to deal with that. Faith is an easy way for people to legitimize their choices. Their constant referral to the Pastor also leads me to believe that he has in some way shown them he can create a better environment for them and so they blindly follow his teachings.
In short people are always looking for ways to deal with their emotions, justify them, or get rid of them and when presented with an option you are likely to cling to it if it solves your problem. This is because lots of emotions are unpleasant. I think to follow along you need to be relatively malleable. You need to be open to it for whatever reason, and with these women I think they like the easiness of it all..."if we are a possession then we are secure and we don't have to feel lots of bad emotions, we don't have to make tough calls..." etc.
- Any closing thoughts/comments?
It makes me sad to think people believe these kinds of things. Its so extreme and it's so limiting! These women are resigning themselves to be possessions and follow the men leading their lives, when they may be able to come up with some pretty cool, unique, intelligent thoughts that could do something pretty great.
Comments While Listening
Ohhhhh Kat. This is rough to keep listening to lol.
I'm a hair over an hour in and so far I've gotten the gist that "Biblically", women are property. And we should be down with this because there is security and honor in that. Haha, I'm not surprised.
So do you want me to keep listening? or can we go off what I've already heard?
Me: I would recommend finishing it, to get the full scope of what they're arguing, but if you want to quit, I'm not going to stop you.
P: Okay. I'll turn it back on then!
Me: I appreciate it. And though the post itself clocks in at two hours, the bulk of it is done by 1:45; then they start taking calls.
P:Ohhhh okay! So I've only got about 30 minutes left then!
This is just... so hard to hear.
and I feel for you and Janelle because it must be so frustrating for them to broadcast these beliefs under the same religious section as you guys.
Me: I'm hoping you can bring your Psych knowledge to bear on it.
P: Haha, I'll do my best.
It’s very "wolf in sheep's clothing" like if I didn't know you and what I do about what you guys actually do believe, then this would totally turn me off to even learning more about it.
Me: Exactly. And that's why I thought we should do this interview project. To inform, to shock, and to show contrast.
P: They’re back to resisting the truth and being an enemy of your husband.
Me: Yes, and I have my own theories on that, but I'd like to hear what you think at the end before swaying you one way or another.
P: Okay! I'm pretty hardcore feminist, though, so.. you'll probably also have to bear with me.
Me: I'm a passionate feminist, too, so I think it'll work just fine.
P: Yay!! I won't feel like a ranting loon, then. Haha.
Me: No worries on that front.
P: Now she’s dogging on my faith.
Me: Yes. This sect of Israelites is rather passionately opposed to Christians.
P:This is sad to me.
"your husband is not your property. You are your husband's property."
aaaaaaawwwwgggghhhhhhhhh
You become one flesh you don't belong to him or really him to you either. You are equals in one body.
Annnndddd its done. Thank the Lord.
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