Orchid
“The only being I'm property of is Yahweh.”
Questions:
- How do you identify yourself, religiously?
A Jew-ish Christian. Torah keeping.
- What is your relationship status?
Committed dating.
- What, if any, questions do you have before we commence the interview?
What benefits exist for polygyny? This is a rhetorical question.
- What is your general reaction to what you listened to?
“Gives you a blinding headache and makes you angry. I can’t imagine what a second sip might do” (borrowing from the film “A Good Year”).
- Do you believe women are unable to understand men, and therefore unable to judge their actions?
I understand many men. Men are not infallible. Neither are women. I absolutely can judge a man’s actions. Is a believing male child molester not to be judged? Give me a break.
- React to the statement, “women are a possession”.
Lmao nah fam. Nah. Purses are a possession. Inanimate objects are possessions. People are not possessions. We fought a civil war to assert that black people aren’t a possession….should we have maintained black women are possessions?
- How do sex slaves, like Bilhah and Zilpah, prevent “the lust of the world”?
They don’t.
- How do you define “love”?
A mutual respect and understanding for one another, with the affectionate feelings caused by brain chemistry.
- Does love create crippling, unmanly weakness in men?
Nope. Love inspires men to be strong instead of lonely and cruel.
- React “the American woman is the enemy of a man”.
Pretty sure Satan is the enemy of man….yep, that’s Satan. Not women. Sidenote: Satan is male.
- From this podcast, what is a “Biblical” marriage?
A marriage of any woman to a working man, for the purpose of children and the woman’s salvation.
- From this podcast, what makes a man? What makes a woman?
A man has a penis and is a person. A woman has a vagina and is not a person.
- What makes a good marriage?
Mutual goals, understanding, and respect...a solid foundation.
- (If married) how does your marriage work?
I’m not married. My relationship works through honest and open communication about issues of conflict,either personal or as a couple.
- How do you think this makes Israelites appear to non-Israelites?
Insane, backwards, inane, dangerous, cult-like, brainwashed. It makes me very upset, and I fear for the women who believe this.
16. Any closing thoughts/comments?
Yes. Judaism and “Israelitism” are Western religions. Buddhism, Confucianism, Hinduism are Eastern religions. Geographically, the mother cultures of Israel, etc, are Phoenician, Sumerian, and Mesopotamian. They are the same mother cultures of Western societies. To say that women need to be “Eastern” is to say women need to think the Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Russian, etc. Israelitism is purely Western. Israelites are a mother culture of Christian culture, hence, American culture. Also, saying “American culture is like x, x, or x” is to erase the culture of so many Americans. It’s a scare tactic and a logical fallacy. Mainstream media? Sure. The capitalist political system? Sure. The American people? No. “American women” are not hurting men at all. Read that again. At ALL.
I want to emphasize again that EASTERN MINDSETS AND EASTERN CULTURES DO NOT INCLUDE ISRAEL. Also, that charismatic leaders are not infallible….are women really made to create children? Is that how we gain salvation? What?
Comments While Listening
O: This is going to make the case for polygyny?
Me: Yes. Passionately.
O: Ethos Pathos Logos will be kept in mind
O: This is Ethos-Doesn't have experience in Eastern culture. Doesn't have mindset of Eastern woman.
Why does culture/geography relate to faith/belief?
You don't need to be married to be saved
Who was Christ's authority? Not Mary, not Joseph....only Yahweh. Not his community, not his local religious leaders.
Hebrew culture=/= salvation. American culture=/= sin.
“Biblical marriage" is not Biblical....
Define: "American Mind".
Emotions=/= sin
"Called to prove my love through my actions"
American culture does not advocate suppression.
Does God favor anthropological cultures? Can't anyone be a believer? Why does "Easternness" relate to salvation?
The mother culture of the West was what, Mesopotamia and Sumeria?
“An agricultural Hebrew didn’t have the time to spend with ANY woman”.....modern and pre-industrial men had time for wives and children.
Being at home with his family equates to woman nagging….women will nag if he is gone or there, depends on the woman’s attitude, not the man’s presence.
“Men who aren’t homosexual now are about to be (because women nag)” THIS IS NOT HOW HUMAN SEXUALITY WORKS…...AT ALL.
Did Christ focus on carpentry, or did he love the church (the believers...from all corners of the earth)? WHAT DOES WORKING ALL THE TIME HAVE TO DO WITH LOVE?
Christianity survived thanks to Europeans who lived in cities, started non-agriculture, etc. Without them we would be Muslim. Seriously. The Moors occupied Spain for 800 years.
WHAT “BIBLICAL MARRIAGE TRUTH”?
What is this irrational fear of homosexuality? It’s another sin, just like the others. JUST as condemning as other sins. “Well those damn gays don’t repent”. Do you have NO sin that you don’t repent of?
“America is against Polygyny” yes, for good reason. Ever been cheated on? Was your man/husband having sex with another woman something that inspired feelings of sisterhood and compassion in you? If he had gotten her pregnant, would you have loved that child as your own?
Numerous children=/=salvation
Gen 28: Sent off to “take” a wife...not a Canaanite. Canaanites were regional enemies and non believers; it wouldn’t be wise to marry your enemy. Better to marry into a group that would strengthen your clan, not divide it. Hence, marrying KIN
“We will not have men as the focus of this show” “we don’t understand our forefathers, we must follow them” follow what we don’t understand? Where does Yah say that? What about the unequally yoked couple….should that woman follow blindly? Of course not.
[Saga of Jacob and Laban]
Jacob: “I’m your cousin.”
Laban: “Awesome, come through. You’re a relative, and a marriageable young man!”
Jacob: Physically attracted to Rachel; doesn’t love Leah, despite her more godly attitude and modest attitude.
Why is Rachel referred to as a daughter of Zion? She engages in idol worship…
Laban: “Oh, to marry Rachel--and so I don’t marry her off first heh heh--you gotta work!!” Laban is clearly taking advantage of his relative.
Jacob: Probably too drunk (due to celebrations/feasting) to realize Leah was the woman he slept with.
What is “Jashur”? is this proven Biblical canon? is it credible? who says?....Well. It still affirms that Leah was supposed to be Rachel.
Neighbors complicit in the swap.
Clearly, living with kinship groups doesn’t ensure happy Hebrew times...the fam bam and neighbors actively deceived Jacob.
29:25-26: Jacob:”Wtf bro? I served for RACHEL”
Laban: “Oh, we give our older daughters first”.
Soooooo why not TELL HIM THAT before he served? Should customs be upheld over love? (Should “Hebraic” wedding customs (decidedly not commandments in Torah or from Christ) be upheld over modern day love?) NOPE.
Laban: squeezing out another 7 years out of Jacob...for Rachel this time.
WHERRRRRRE does it say Leah is his possession?! WHERRRRRRRRE does it say Leah is property?
If Leah was his property, he could have sold her off. Because he doesn’t love her. She’s not property, she’s a wife. D I F F E R E N T T H I N G S.
“Jacob was given Leah, Leah was given a handmaiden” “Jacob was given Rachel, Rachel was given a handmaiden” What is the purpose of handmaids? Surely a domestic helper, to aid these women as they enter their childbearing years. They’re not slaves; they’re handmaids.
“Keep a valuable possession; discard a non valuable possession” Leah was not valuable. She was older, and not pretty.
I would like a definition of the Greek or Hebrew word translated to “possess”.
Me: [http://biblehub.com/hebrew/3423.htm has all the uses of the word translated “possess”. It’s a little weighty. You can also look it up on a verse-by-verse basis]
O: Nations-cities-land….all non-human things
2nd Chron:27-28-29: Men get grapes, corn, land, riches, respect, etc….still not women.
If Hebrew men and women can be property, why can’t a woman have multiple husbands? What if she inherits, and purchases multiple men?
This is so boring.
“TAKE HER” does not mean physically take, it means HAVE SEX. What man who is betrothed but hasn’t TAKEN her….lest another man TAKE her…..It’s about sex, folks.
“American mindset can’t process being property”....neither can the majority of other nations, excluding perhaps ISIS.
Is woman’s role to be property? Really? It’s not to serve God?
Wives would be married to brothers to keep dead brother’s possessions in the family, to keep her dowry in the family, to keep an extra worker in the family. This is a cultural phenomena seen in many ancient groups, from Africa, Asia, etc.
Me: [This is a law, however, it’s often spoken without context. The gist is that an unmarried brother is living with his married brother--as married couples became their own households. And if the married brother dies, leaving his wife childless, his then single brother should marry the widow, but, he does not have to.]
O:This very thing is seriously seen in so many different cultures.
Me: [It is, but it’s not exactly the same. In China, multiple brothers can marry the same woman at the same time to keep the land in the family. The Israelite law is subtly different. I point it out to show that though similar to other countries/cultures who do/did support polygamy, this law does not actually support polygamy.]
O: My point is the purpose is to keep economic value in the family VIA the wife, not because the wife herself is a possession. She HAS possessions, and many cultures recognize this.
Me: [And a good point it is.]
If it wasn’t about romance, then why didn’t Jacob accept Leah as his wife and stop there? Why go for Rachel, whom he LOVED.
Look, I’ll just put it like this: Men taking wives purely because they provide for them, in exchange for sex and children, is prostitution. He’s paying her, keeping her economically, in exchange for having her as a wife to have sex with, since clearly this “ideal” man is too busy in the fields to spend time at home.
Women aren’t property. Sex isn’t a commodity. To say it is is ungodly….
One man, one woman.
God didn’t make Jacob love Rachel more; God didn’t love Rachel more; the point here is that JACOB HAVING MORE THAN ONE WIFE IS THE PROBLEM, CREATING INEQUALITY
God tries to make it up to Leah by giving her babies...to alleviate her being hated...He wouldn’t have had to do that if Jacob and Laban hadn’t f****d up. Clearly, if she was doing what she was supposed to be doing, if this marriage inequality was just “So what?”, God wouldn’t have been kind to her. If this marriage was “Godly” then God would have held the same “so what” attitude. Clearly, the situation is not okay.
Bottom line: Leah and Rachel and Jacob is not a happy, ideal marriage. Adam and Eve were an ideal marriage.
“If you don’t agree with this podcast, that polygyny is ok then you will fall away and not be saved!!!!” Prove it, please. Please prove to me that God will not accept my faith and actions if I don’t accept my husband f******g other women under the guise of religious significance. This is a ridiculous, male-centric “woman’s” talk that elevates men to god-status.
“We are here for our men” Really? You’re not here to glorify God?
I’m not here to say that women shouldn’t respect men.
Well, actually, I guess I am. women shouldn’t respect men on the basis of being born male. Women should respect men worthy of respect, and men should respect women worthy of respect.
What happens to a woman when she marries a deceitful man like Laban? If she is property, not a person. This will happen. What then? [Is she] Resigned to rape, abuse, infidelity, drunkenness? Is that God’s purpose?
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